Therug Damage Factor and New Armor

[Anubis]

Are therugs granted the same amount of damage increase from the new armors, as from shadows?

This isnt something we can see in stats with theurgs so only you can clarify this for us.

[Glitchless]

Yes, same.

[Anubis]

I dont feel like therug damage has been addressed fully enough since the class updates.

Can we look at maybe giving them some more?

Monks were tweaked quite a bit after release, therugs only got the addition of arrow burn and a small buff to damage but its still un-noticeable.

Is there any thing you could potentially do to address the lack of damage on geared therugs?

[Glitchless]

Is there a geared theurg?

[Anubis]

I transfered to vamp because i felt super underpowered. Even as a vamp i feel very under powered but i can actually kill beast.

Transfering anything from a high dur class is super painful because of the way dur transfers out but. Even at the time, i was in 15 D*D's and the additional provided by theurg quest, and felt very weak.

Something simple as allowing them to deal more relic damage (similar to how fangs work for vamps), or increased the random window of power to have less of a 'lower' side.

I can get my gear back and xfer / whatever if you'd like there to be a geared therug back on the server.

[Anubis]

To answer you question though, I do believe there are geared therugs on S1, and Kiramnd2 was geared and struggled a few inquest ago (does not have class quest).

But again, ill point out, Anubis was completely stacked as a therug, and couldnt kill **** / struggled immensely in duels.

Similarly geared vs seith (who was only a few ranks higher than me in gems) he had about a 95% kill rate on me.


This has not been tested since the new armor, but i dont see anything really granted by the new armor that would address the areas that therugs are lacking in.



I've said it before but

1. Relic damage to beast / players could be increased.
2. Void / Mez resistances are basically non existant could be increased slightly.
3. The "bottom" end of the randomization of their damage could be moved up slightly, to make it less 'random' but still vary. (im unsure how they actually work so i dont know if this even makes sense)
4. Address the empty item slot so they can gain the benefits from the item, and drop the extra D*D to just 1, vs 2. (give them the ability to equip 2 heal spells, or something).
5. Decrease the annulment % chance of BP to 25% if you have the quest item, vs 50% (both for vamp and therugs).

[Glitchless]

Theurgs are underrepresented and one still won a brawl recently on S1. Another placed 2nd in a recent Inquest. I'm not convinced they're as weak as you think.

[Anubis]

So what about vamps then, cause that logic falls on the floor.

[Tris]

Originally Posted by Anubis

So what about vamps then, cause that logic falls on the floor.

correct me if i'm wrong, but Vampire is the only class to never have won an acu at all (post back int the day when we had multiple winners)

that should be enough to try and make them more viable, especially since at the moment the only reason 99% of players are a vamp is to speed up leveling process

[Anubis]

1. I don't really know, classes were no longer in the acumen win announcement for years. I only remember vamps winning in the early days pre monk/therug/archer

2. There are only a few 'real' vamps that I know of. Myself, and Nostromo. I don't know server 1 very well so I cant tell you, but the class is underwhelming to play.

3. I think vamps need an item that similar to BS/SR/TC in terms of relative cost / effectiveness / rarity.

4. Adjust the fighter class quest, not even sure why its a thing. Vamps were super under-represented in inquest besides mules and Glitchless made it even harder for them to compete.

Originally Posted by Glitchless

Theurgs are underrepresented and one still won a brawl recently on S1. Another placed 2nd in a recent Inquest. I'm not convinced they're as weak as you think.

They suck at beasting.

[l337]

Yeah theurg vs beast is awful. Which is a weird trade off considering they aren't good tier in pvp. It's literally better to have a lower-tier BP suit to swap in to for beasting. :/
And that's with BP being a useless annulable relic.

An in between relic for either class would probably be great, but I'm not gunna pretend to know what numbers would balance. BP being the best vamp relic pre-VS that is annulable is kinda awkward.

E: Or just making the theurg item not such a crazy investment to still be average when all the other quest items are so accessible

[Anubis]

Originally Posted by l337

Yeah theurg vs beast is awful. Which is a weird trade off considering they aren't good tier in pvp. It's literally better to have a lower-tier BP suit to swap in to for beasting. :/
And that's with BP being a useless annulable relic.

An in between relic for either class would probably be great, but I'm not gunna pretend to know what numbers would balance. BP being the best vamp relic pre-VS that is annulable is kinda awkward.

E: Or just making the theurg item not such a crazy investment to still be average when all the other quest items are so accessible

the return from the investment in therug class quest is moot. its just more D*D's which in turn dont really grant you more power.

The issue is their widly varying damage numbers and need those tc like damage factor upgrades.

[Glitchless]

Vamps are definitely not good at end game PvP, but that's largely due to the fact that their damage is so consistent, if they were to be good they'd be too good. A buff that gave them some increased, inconsistent PvP damage might work, however.

[Anubis]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

Vamps are definitely not good at end game PvP, but that's largely due to the fact that their damage is so consistent, if they were to be good they'd be too good. A buff that gave them some increased, inconsistent PvP damage might work, however.

Wouldn't having the class quest adjust BP's annulment chance to 20% not be random enough? Right now vamps have no "class advantage" that i can see besides their consistent damage. Fighters have a counter mechanic for them.

Currently there is no counter mechanic against fighters, monks, therugs. Monks and Therugs I can understand, fighters I believe need a counter mechanic.

Honestly, even though there are already so many and it might be irritating. I think vamps need a revive / damage nullification mechanic which might have a low proc %. ie 10-15%

[l337]

Pulled from chat discussion:

What about a similar 25k ash item to the other classes for Theurg
Makes minimum cast equivalent to shadow damage spell

Right now the last quest item for damage makes them the equivalent of a 410g spell as I can see?

[Anubis]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

Vamps are definitely not good at end game PvP, but that's largely due to the fact that their damage is so consistent, if they were to be good they'd be too good. A buff that gave them some increased, inconsistent PvP damage might work, however.

How about 10-20% chance to negate the effects of Voids / Devoids / Being Mesmerized.

This is RNG, and isnt a sure fire 'vamp would win' situation.

[Niizandar]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

Vamps are definitely not good at end game PvP, but that's largely due to the fact that their damage is so consistent, if they were to be good they'd be too good. A buff that gave them some increased, inconsistent PvP damage might work, however.

mind to explain me then why is the best pve class which is a fighter who get a x5 dex and a x100 to str can also have the best resistance in the game on top of their sose class quest which give them another advantage vs a class that isnt even that good at pve but vampire can't get a slight boost or they would be too good. When a Fighter is best overall, i think /ann on both server speak for itself about fighter.

Just a quick reminder that a fighter can 9x9x2 a DE without a single mr,mur or dxdev

Vampire need at least a few VAS to achive such feat.

And yeh the minimum dmg of theurg is really ****ing garbage

i have one theurg and it is not geared because it is not worth it.

[Anubis]

You want to argue that therugs arent weak. I just failed to 9x9 a REGULAR 1bil mob, gear below. Every other class in this would 9x9 100% of the time 1bils.


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[Glitchless]

Anybody else hear those sirens?
That's the buffbulance. We've got a buff emergency. The class with randomy damage did less than lethal damage.

[l337]

But is he wrong?

If the bad roll is acceptable being God awful (no pun intended), the good roll must be equally amazing on the other end of the spectrum right?